Jeremy and Jessica Nowelth tried hard to explain to their 16 year old daughter, Lindsey, their reasoning. They only had so much money and her fraternal twin, Linder, had the gene that carried Fragile X Syndrome, the most common cause of mental retardation. The Genetic Specialist assured them that without gene replacement he would have a hard life and would most likely never live on his own. They had no choice. Gene replacement and repair had become such a fast growing part of the birth of children that insurance companies had long ago stopped covering the procedure except for life threatening problems. Jessica had wanted to give Lindsey an improvement over what had become her curse in life, next to no breasts at all. She remembered the torment she had received in Junior High, the jokes about her "Boy Chest". Jeremy's sisters and Mom both had nothing to be thrilled with, so a little adjustment of the DNA sounded like a good investment, but with Linder having a more serious flaw, they did what they had to do. Now the best they could do for her was implants which had taken on the bad moniker of "Second best breasts". Lindsey was inconsolable, how could they have done this to her? In a world of people who had every minor genetic flaw fixed, even the smallest of imperfections meant you were one of "Them". The Troglodytes, the cursed people. The unemployable, the undateable. The people who only sat with each other, only dated one another, and were shunned by the growing lesions of perfect people who suffered no genetic diseases, no genetic imperfections, who were born to lead the perfect life.
Sound far-fetched? I don't think so.
Bio genetics is a fast growing field, and with it comes some real ethical questions. What is an "imperfection"? Should people be allowed to tamper with "God's will"? How far should we take it? What should be covered by insurance? Will people have to have "papers" showing which genetic flaws have been fixed? Do we know what the implications are further down the genetic line? Is it fair for insurance companies to have access to these records? How about businesses when they hire? Should they have access? How will this affect society and morality? Will we create two separate classes of people, those who's genetics have been fixed and those who have not? As we plunge into this unknown world we need to think these things through while we still have the chance.
Here's some interesting food for thought I came across, (those of you with subjective morality just skip this part as you'll see nothing wrong with it anyway.) While thumbing threw some medical literature, I came across an article on G.S.A., Genetic Sexual Attraction. It seems we are, for some unknown reason, genetically attracted to our family. Most likely it's a bonding thing designed to make us care about each other as a family unit, but it also extends to sexual attraction. There is now research that has shown that because of fractured families, siblings, and even parents, are finding themselves sexually attracted to other immediate family members, especially if they were separated from them for long periods , particularly during growing up. This doesn't seem to be as much of a problem amongst family members who grew up with each other for also an unknown reason. Most likely because you have too much knowledge about each other or because societal norms have taught you to suppress those feelings. Incest is generally looked down upon by most every civilized nation and a good part of the reason, besides religion, is because of genetic problems. People of similar genetics can have a host of genetic problems when they have children together. Now, if we can cure those genetic problems is there still a reason to outlaw incest among consenting adults? Isn't it wrong to sleep with your younger sister because she's inclined to look up to you? Or your daughter? Or your son? Even if your both adults? With this hurdle out of the way, subjective moralists are certain to argue no.
How about the gene for aging? Science is making strides towards discovering our genetic clock. If assumptions are correct, we could feasibly shut it off thereby greatly increasing our lifespans. (With my luck I'll already be in my 80's when it's available). Will we make decisions on who should get it based on age? What would be the point of extending some one's life after 70 years old? We already have a problem with Baby-Boomers reaching old age at the same time and the financial burdens it will create for the next generation. Will we limit it and tell the people who need it most (Most likely me) tough chit?
I'm fortunate enough to have a good friend who is a Genetic Scientist. He told me that the possibilities in genetic engineering are endless but so are the problems. When I proposed my concern about creating two separate classes of people, he seemed to think we wouldn't do it as it would shrink the gene pool to a dangerous level. But I don't share his faith in humanity to do the right thing vs. what's best for themselves in the short run. We already see people taking dangerous drugs and having expensive and dangerous surgeries to make themselves more attractive, or to fight off the ravages of old age. In a world of breast implants on kids as young as 12 years old, am I supposed to believe people won't take whatever advantage they can get to have a better life? Have we as a race ever shown much concern for the future? Am I supposed to believe that if people are given the chance to make their kids taller, smarter, stronger, or better looking they won't do it because of some problem 10 generations away? These are issues we will have to face in the all-too-near future, and just like the present issue of embryonic stem cell research, it will be sure to be politicized. To steal a line from Jeff Goldbloom in Jurassic Park, are we so concerned with whether or not we can do something, that we forget to ask ourselves if we should? H.C.
Sound far-fetched? I don't think so.
Bio genetics is a fast growing field, and with it comes some real ethical questions. What is an "imperfection"? Should people be allowed to tamper with "God's will"? How far should we take it? What should be covered by insurance? Will people have to have "papers" showing which genetic flaws have been fixed? Do we know what the implications are further down the genetic line? Is it fair for insurance companies to have access to these records? How about businesses when they hire? Should they have access? How will this affect society and morality? Will we create two separate classes of people, those who's genetics have been fixed and those who have not? As we plunge into this unknown world we need to think these things through while we still have the chance.
Here's some interesting food for thought I came across, (those of you with subjective morality just skip this part as you'll see nothing wrong with it anyway.) While thumbing threw some medical literature, I came across an article on G.S.A., Genetic Sexual Attraction. It seems we are, for some unknown reason, genetically attracted to our family. Most likely it's a bonding thing designed to make us care about each other as a family unit, but it also extends to sexual attraction. There is now research that has shown that because of fractured families, siblings, and even parents, are finding themselves sexually attracted to other immediate family members, especially if they were separated from them for long periods , particularly during growing up. This doesn't seem to be as much of a problem amongst family members who grew up with each other for also an unknown reason. Most likely because you have too much knowledge about each other or because societal norms have taught you to suppress those feelings. Incest is generally looked down upon by most every civilized nation and a good part of the reason, besides religion, is because of genetic problems. People of similar genetics can have a host of genetic problems when they have children together. Now, if we can cure those genetic problems is there still a reason to outlaw incest among consenting adults? Isn't it wrong to sleep with your younger sister because she's inclined to look up to you? Or your daughter? Or your son? Even if your both adults? With this hurdle out of the way, subjective moralists are certain to argue no.
How about the gene for aging? Science is making strides towards discovering our genetic clock. If assumptions are correct, we could feasibly shut it off thereby greatly increasing our lifespans. (With my luck I'll already be in my 80's when it's available). Will we make decisions on who should get it based on age? What would be the point of extending some one's life after 70 years old? We already have a problem with Baby-Boomers reaching old age at the same time and the financial burdens it will create for the next generation. Will we limit it and tell the people who need it most (Most likely me) tough chit?
I'm fortunate enough to have a good friend who is a Genetic Scientist. He told me that the possibilities in genetic engineering are endless but so are the problems. When I proposed my concern about creating two separate classes of people, he seemed to think we wouldn't do it as it would shrink the gene pool to a dangerous level. But I don't share his faith in humanity to do the right thing vs. what's best for themselves in the short run. We already see people taking dangerous drugs and having expensive and dangerous surgeries to make themselves more attractive, or to fight off the ravages of old age. In a world of breast implants on kids as young as 12 years old, am I supposed to believe people won't take whatever advantage they can get to have a better life? Have we as a race ever shown much concern for the future? Am I supposed to believe that if people are given the chance to make their kids taller, smarter, stronger, or better looking they won't do it because of some problem 10 generations away? These are issues we will have to face in the all-too-near future, and just like the present issue of embryonic stem cell research, it will be sure to be politicized. To steal a line from Jeff Goldbloom in Jurassic Park, are we so concerned with whether or not we can do something, that we forget to ask ourselves if we should? H.C.
20 comments:
Food for thought, HC. What is even scarier is that most of the people going into medical fields don't care about bioethics and don't see how it applies to them.
I know because I was a bioethics tutor for years, I even taught a class. More than anything else, it taught me to avoid hospitals.
Interesting way of looking at this controversy.
I tend to think that tenants from science and morality (particularly from religion) must coexist for the sake of humanity. It annoys me how many right-wingers think that science is trying to somehow usurp God's authority when, in fact, science may actually be an EXTENSION of it. If it were up to them, God's "will" would be death and suffer when His will MAY HAVE BEEN life and comfort. Ironically, by trying to be God's mouthpiece, they're actually the ones attempting to usurp God's authority. Hmmm....
Sure, you've got some wacko science that does nothing to contribute to health and quality of life (i.e. Dinosaur regeneration; which would make Jeff Goldblum's quote more pertinent). But stem cell research used to improve someone's physical quality of life is far different than some radical and dangerous science used just for the sake of arousing curiousity.
That's what I think, anyway.
ok, it took me a while to read this because i had to go to the highlighted links to read that material as well, then sometimes those links took me somewhere else. this is a very interesting subject, and a very wide-ranged one.
will, i wanted to know why bioethics has taught you to avoid hospitals?
i agree with andre in that SOME tenents from science & morality must co-exist.... i think what it is sometimes is that people tend to put God in a box. they tend to keep Him within the confines of the black and white, when He's much larger. i actually believe that areas of science are helpful and insightful, but i also think there are times when science goes over the line and is contrary to the ways and will of God. but then someone might ask me what is over the line, and when is it contrary? who's to say? i have my opinion, you have yours, the scientists have theirs, the drs have their, so who decides what's right and when it's ok and when it's not?
i haven't followed a lot about stem-cell research, and while i think the concept is a good one, if one life is being destroyed to save or help another, i'm not in agreement with that. i believe the stem-cells come from embryos (?), but if so, where do the embryos come from?
then i think there's another way to obtain the stem cells which would be from the amniotic fluid, in which no life would be harmed or destroyed. this to me would be a case improving someone's quality of life that andre spoke of.
i really don't know anything about bioethics, but i think it extends across to many arenas--political, religion, law, philosophy, medical, people's personal opinions/beliefs, and while some areas may be black or white, or clearcut, some are more difficult and agan, who then decides whether it's right or wrong? i also think things like race, culture, age, income may play a part in who gets help, etc......it is a scary world of bioethics and so the media discussions continue.
Hey Will,
I apologize to all of you for having more questions than answers on this one. When I find myself confused about which way to go in any circumstance, my natural instinct is to go slowly, and I think that's what we need to do. Will, your right that bioethics is not being pushed enough in medicine. The biggest fault capitalism has is that it is nearly always profit-driven, which is more times than not, contrary to ethical.
Hey Dre,
"I tend to think that tenants from science and morality (particularly from religion) must coexist for the sake of humanity." How do I expand on that? You stated it perfectly. Yet another of Andre's Axioms. (I'm still pushing for that name, come on, it even shortens to A2) On your second point. I agree progress has to be looked at as God's Will in some sense, I have a little parable that illustrates that point; A very religious man was stranded on a deserted island. Soon a boat came by to rescue him, but the man said "No thanks, God will save me." Next a plane flew overhead but again the man declined stating, "No thanks, God will save me." Soon the man grew hungry and thirsty and died. When he met God he protested, "My dear God, I believed in you right to the end why didn't you save me?" God then replied, "I tried, I sent a boat and a plane." When God hands us a toolbox we should use it, but I have to believe he is watching to see how we handle His tools.
Hey Heiress,
Well I'm glad to see someone checks my links, some of them make the point better than I do. On the issue of embryotic stem cells. The last I heard, it is true that you can get the same stem cells from the placenta or from the amniotic fluid. I discussed this with my friend who does research in this field and he told me that while it's true that we have some 400,000 embryos left over that would be destroyed anyway, if we were to find cures, the DNA would have to match perfectly. Meaning they would have to use embryos created specifically from that man's DNA. Which would be creating life just to destroy it. Hopefully, using the amniotic fluid or some other source would end that problem in the future. But for now it does have some ethical problems, at least as best as I understand it. Thanks for commenting.
i always read your blog, even if i don't answer, but you guys give the brain such a workout, that i want to take advantage and give mine some more exercise. thanx for your comments to mine. i used the stem cell research as an answer to andre's comments, but i saw you had other examples in your post.
HC, sorry for using your forum for this, but how can i put one of those podcasts on my website? when i click on "podcast," nothing happens?
Hey Heiress,
Did you want one from Wrongleyspoken? If so, go to their website (wrongleyspoken.com) and they have a way illustrated on it. (you copy their HTML code) If you wanted one for your own site with your own music you have to have a site that streams it 24/7 that way it won't have to load each time. Will could probably help you more if that's the case. He's the resident computer brain.
thanx. i was wondering how you found music with those words that pretty much went along with your blogpost. i'll contact Will also for the other one.
heiresschild: Tutoring and teaching bioethics taught me to stay away from hospitals because I saw how little future medical professionals care about ethics in their field.
People who don't care about ethics tend to screw you over more than people who do.
understand and agree. thanx.
I expect to see some pretty amazing advances in genetics & the manipulation of such within my life-time (although I'm sure you, like my parents when they were children, thought that we'd all be living like The Jetsons by now). Fierce debates about the ethics of such are almost certain to accompany them as well; but that's a good thing. Of these advances, I expect many good things will come of them, however because its humans doing the manipulating/creating, there are bound to be some overzealous "mad" scientist types to come along w/ the good. To many I think, it'd be a good trade-off to cure diseases @ the expense of also creating a market for some other sort of genetic manipulation.
Just my 2¢.
@Will: As a future medical professional I'd have to say that you're either FOS in making such an assine blanket statement as such, or you've had the misfortune of attending/teaching @ some fairly lame institution. Or is that some of these students don't agree with your ethics? Please enlighten me.
-n
Nice post, i love how you cover almost every possible implication even down to insurance companies. (You know those bastards would look for any reason to raise your rates!)
This is a very complicated morality issue. The subject of "what constitutes morality" is complicated enough without hypothetical scenarios of a geneticaly engineered society. There is a really good movie on the subject, i think its called Gattaca, ITs alot like your scenario in this post.
A well worth a view if your interested in this subject.
Nic,
Where the F**K is my flying car?? You are so right that I thought a lot of things would be different by now, I thought race would no longer matter, pot would be legal, people would finally see Andy Warhol was a talentless fake, and the list goes on. Thanks for thoughts from a future health care worker. It's all going to hinge on how people like you view what's ethical....and what's not.
Thanks Rev.
Of course, after I posted it I thought of 10 more angles, but I wanted to keep it short enough to be readable. Your dead on about morality being a major debate all around in almost every issue I can think of. We as Americans need to come to some agreement about what our basic morality is. Actually, I did see that movie and it did make me think a lot about these very issues, although that wasn't the genesis of my thinking on it. Thanks for you comments.
OK. Let's try this again (I was having problems posting. Sorry).
Hippie,
I have a problem with the argument that stem cell testing involves "creating life only to destroy it". On the one hand, you can get into the philosophical debate about how life -- whether in the form of some subatomic goo or in the shape of a walking, breathing, thinking being -- is sacred. But, physically speaking (which is probably more important for the sake of somebody who is...well...physically suffering) I don't see the problem with extracting genes from some embryo to improve quality of life for the living? What are we more concerned with: an embryo who's undeveloped life-force is connected to some other person (the mother) or an actual human being with a developed central nervous system, flowing blood, organs, etc.?
Right-to-lifers make me chuckle (not necessarily because of their stance. They're free to believe how they want). But they are concerned about life up until the person is born. After that, the person is nothing more than a second thought.
Hypocrisy concealed by philosophical ideology. The best kind of hypocrisy, I suppose...
nic: I indeed apologize for my blanket statement. I meant to say "most", not to imply all.
Sadly, I worked at one of the best nursing schools in the region, with a faculty of nationally renowned nursing professionals.
I wish I was FOS on this, really I do. Sometimes it would feel better to be wrong, and this is one of them.
I know they don't care about ethics in their work place because the flat out told me, and that they only took the class because they had to.
The people who cared enough to disagree with me about it were the least of my worries.
Andre: Certainly this
"But they are concerned about life up until the person is born. After that, the person is nothing more than a second thought."
is an over generalization?
While I do find it ironic that many adamant anti-abortion (lets cut the right-to-life right-to-choice crap) people are strangely for capitol punishment, and admittedly, 'christians' do tend to treat everyone else like shit, some people care deeply about both the unborn and the already living.
I talk about this briefly in my sanctity of life blog.
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