Saturday, January 19, 2008

DEFENDING THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE

My friend, Andre Louis from "Inside Andre's Head" recently posted a two-part video in support of abolishing the Electoral College. Since he already put out that side of the argument, I figured I would play Devil's Advocate and give the other side, in support of keeping the Electoral College. This is an age-old argument here in the States and to be honest, I wouldn't blame you for picking either side. That being said, let me give you my side of the debate and then you can decide for yourself. I would recommend watching Dre's video first since he is the one doing 'prosecution' of the E.C. (left alone, my side would win by default).

The first point I would like to make about the Electoral College is that this is a process created by our Founding Fathers. To me, that puts it in a special category. A lot of what was created by our Founding Fathers in making this country; the Constitution, the Bill of Rights for instance, is what we all identify with being 'The United States of America'. I don't really like "Slippery Slope" arguments, but I do believe that if we start re-writing the Constitution we put it in the hands of people that are (in my opinion) far more corrupt and self-serving than the people who wrote it the first time. I don't know what a Constitution written in our time would look like, but scares me to even consider it. Now, I know that we have a procedure for Amending the Constitution, but we're talking about eliminating an Article of the Constitution, not just adding an idea, and that should not be taken lightly. Changing the principle structure of the voting process can lead to more changes that may rob us of some of the election process in the future. Imagine this argument on the Senate floor; "Why can't we abolish the 1965 Voting Rights Act? We did away with the Electoral College and the Voting Rights Act wasn't even in the original Constitution." It's better, I think, to protect the whole process venomously.


My second defense is that I believe the Electoral College helps protect State's Rights. We are not just "America", we are "The United States of America". The reason is the same as it was when the country was formed, different regions have different cultures and different concerns and needs. The E.C. helps protect the original idea that each state votes for the President who best represents it's own concerns. Keep in mind that it was States Rights issues that principally caused the Civil War. Removing the E.C. would almost certainly leave some states feeling that they have somehow had their say in the election diminished. The popular vote concept ignores the fact that states have always had some degree of sovereignty. There is no way they won't, or even shouldn't, feel their power has been usurped by the Federal Government.


Another problem with popular vote that can't be overlooked is the fact that most of the population of the U.S. rests in it's big cities. While eliminating the E.C. would certainly empower Democrats and Minorities, who have far more representation in large cities, (the reason I believe they support abolishing it) it would come at the cost of removing influence from Western states in particular. The formula now is that Democrats represent the East Coast and the West Coast along with a few other high population areas and the Republicans represent the vast majority of the land mass of the U.S. that has scattered populations (Probably the main reason it was possible for Bush to win the Electoral vote and lose the popular vote). For the Republicans to be forced to compete on Democrat's soil in just a few major cities would certainly change the debate. It's hard to imagine that debate would change in any way favorable to rural people. Look at it this way; If the majority of Hispanic people lived in Utah, why would I care about any of their issues or waste any of my time and money there when my message can be spread better in big venues with huge crowds in large cities instead of small crowds in gymnasiums spread all over Utah? The E.C. makes it possible for inner city people to compete fairly with rural people. Rural states are left feeling that at least their issues were addressed and their vote counted, even if only in winning their state.


The 2000 Presidential Election is the main catalyst for the movement against the E.C.. The feeling among Democrats is that their man, Al Gore, would have won if it would have gone by popular vote alone. I can't blame them for feeling cheated, but the fact is; those were the rules at the time. It's very important to look at this issue objectively and not want to eliminate the E.C. based on bitterness or sour grapes. This would be the single biggest change to our voting structure ever, and I would think long and hard before I made a choice based on emotion rather than what is best for the whole country. H.C.

13 comments:

lime said...

i have to admit at one time i thought the electoral college was a terrible idea. i've come around to a bit more understanding on the subject and certainly the whole idea of states rights is one i hold to. so i'd have to say i am more with you than with andre on this issue. thanks for the link to his vids though. again, i appreciate that you want your readers to examine all sides and THINK for themselves.

related to voting but not so much the electoral college, the big change i'd like to see is that we all have our primaries/caucases on the same day and that no media coverage of results is permitted until polls close in the entire country.

the single day for primaries would get rid of all this stupid 'fine tuning' of messages. if you're a candidate you shoudl have a message and a platform that you can clearly articulate from day one. it should not depend upon crocodile tears or discreditting someone else. sell me on your own merit, period. also i live in pennsylvania. by the time our primary rolls around in the april we pretty much already know who the candidates for each party will be. pulling the lever is an exercise in futility.

as for the media blackout until polls close, it's just the right thing to do. the intense coverage from dwn on election day in the east coast to the end of the day in hawaii i think can just hold too much sway over undecided voters based on nothing other than not wanting to vote for someone who is already perceived as a loser.

The H.C. said...

Hey lime,
You touch on a lot of good points. In the near future I'm going to do a post on the delegate system of both the Republicans and the Democrats. I'm going to explain why we should eliminate, or at least regulate them on the state level. This includes the Primary/Caucus calender which is done all in backroom deals. It's hard to believe that we except an election that is run by a party as opposed to being run by the State as sanctioned by the Articles of the Constitution. As far as the polls; I'm with you on that one. The polls can have too much effect if their given out during the voting. You may, for example, hear that your candidate is way ahead and stay home only to find out too many other people did the same thing. Thanks for your comments

Andre said...

I, for one, am more with Andre on this one. *snicker*

At any rate, to address your points:

"...the Electoral College is that this is a process created by our Founding Fathers. To me, that puts it in a special category."

Yeah. The same guys who -- as they were drafting the Constitution -- did so while being served cold lemonade from Jethro Jenkins, one of their slaves.

"Changing the principle structure of the voting process can lead to more changes that may rob us of some of the election process in the future."

I'm not so sure if I agree with either. As I stated before, the Constitution calls for us to overhaul (yes, I had trepidation on using this word for some of the reasons you cited) to reflect popular culture. Everything else changes with the times. Why should this be any different?

"My second defense is that I believe the Electoral College helps protect State's Rights. We are not just "America", we are "The United States of America"."

Precisely my point. The Electoral College doesn't need to protect state's rights when choosing NATIONAL leaders. State's rights stop at policies and systems designed for...well...the state level. Under state level systems, everybody from the county janitor to the Governor are selected using a pluralist system. Why do we feel the need to employ another system for the person who's gonna be in charge of ALL of us? Frankly, I'd be pissed knowing that we can elect a governor with 50.1% of the vote, but not a President.

"The E.C. helps protect the original idea that each state votes for the President who best represents it's own concerns."

Not really. During election year, every candidate claims to be acting in the interest/concerns of the citizens. But they never do. Hello? Anybody ever hear of "special interest" groups?!

"The popular vote concept ignores the fact that states have always had some degree of sovereignty."

Again, state sovereignty cuts short when you choose national figures. Instead, what makes more sense is recognizing the collectivity of national citizen input. For instance, under a popular system, I could conceivably be an AMERICAN voter; who could (should) be able to place my vote anywhere...NOT just Michigan. But of course that would never happen.

"Another problem with popular vote that can't be overlooked is the fact that most of the population of the U.S. rests in it's big cities."

I get that. But just because a state or even a region tends to subscribe to certain beliefs and possess certain interests doesn't mean that whole area does. That's my ultimate point. The E.C. forces a minority in one area to be represented by the most popular sentiments of that area. It says that a place like N.Y. (for example) -- who may have 5.1 million liberals and 5.0 million conservatives is holistically liberal. If you can't see the flaw in that logic...

Popular vote allows for a person's interest; even if it's small compared to the overwhelming difference around them -- to be counted into a much larger, national pool. So if the two people that are living in Montana get pissed because they can't match up with the folks in California, they should be able to rest well at night knowing that they really AREN'T in competition with them. Their voice is being added to a much larger on around the country.

"It's very important to look at this issue objectively and not want to eliminate the E.C. based on bitterness or sour grapes."

Fortunately, I pride myself in not being one of the pissed people who can't get over Gore losing (though I imagine that things couldn't be any worse than they are now with Dubya). I'm just embarrassed that our country is still using the same system it did with 13 colonies and about 3 million people as they are with 50 states and about 100 times that population today.

The H.C. said...

Hey Dre,
"I, for one, am more with Andre on this one. *snicker*"
-All you black people stick together. JK-
This is one where we'll have to agree to disagree. You have faith in the politicians to "get it right" in rewriting the Constitution while I fear that more than anything. On that, I doubt we'll ever agree. You see a strong Centralist Government as a good thing and I feel the government is already too involved in things that I would consider states issues. I doubt I can change your mind on that one but I'll keep trying. The sovereignty of the states is the main issue with me and that can't be cured with a stronger Federal Government. On your other point; While it's true some of our F.F. had slaves (and that is 100% wrong) they also created the strongest country in the world. I hear Albert Einstein used to get lost walking around the block but I'm not going to throw out the theory of relativity. (not a good comparison, but you know what I mean.) This is the fundamental difference in the way people view government. Some people see government as a solution, I nearly always see it as the problem. Thanks for your side of the debate Andre. I think everyone is a little wiser for having heard it, (even though your wrong *snicker*)

Andre said...

Dude, you've got as much of a chance of convincing me of the E.C.'s legitimacy as I do in convincing you that white people need to "stop being so damn stupid."

Note to H.C.'s other readers: That's an inside joke. Please don't be offended...

lime said...

i look forward to the future posts.

as for the concept of the federal govt getting it right during a constitutional overhaul? i am firmly with hippie on this one. all i have to do is think about the patriot act and my blood freezes to consider anything further.

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Anonymous said...

I have an idea I think would work well, and is basically a middle ground. Every district elects a congressman or woman. Let every district also have one vote for president. That way every district is heard, you vote counts for much more. A liberal area in a conservative state gets heard and vice versa. Simple majority wins. This would help focus nominees stances on issues and truly show what the people want.

Gerrymandering could be a concern but would be much more noticable as well.

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